If you polled kids, most would say they learn best when it's quiet. What happens, then, if it isn't?

To find out, Y-Press talked with a former school superintendent, a fourth-grade teacher and four students in his class.

Washington Township teacher Kevin Gardner had 30 students in his fourth-grade class by the end of the 2000-01 school year.

"I consider (my class) to be very large. When things go smoothly, I don't mind that it's so large. It's just that it's hard for things to go smoothly when so many people are going in so many directions," explained Gardner, who has spent more than 21 years in public education, 14 of them in administration. He went back to the classroom four years ago.

The students agreed that overcrowding is an issue in their class. First of all, it's noisy.

"(It's) hard to learn," said Grant Churchill, 10.

"It's hard to do my work," agreed Alyssa Smith, 11.

Sometimes the class can get out of hand and disruptive.

"It takes a long time for our teacher to explain things to us because everyone's always either playing around or talking," said Amber Girard, 10. "It just gets on everyone's nerves."

"Most kids will interrupt," added Brett Fisher, 10.

It also gets on the teacher's nerves.

"Our teacher gets really mad . . . about all the talking," said Grant.

Another disadvantage is the lack of personal attention. "Some people have problems keeping their mouths shut and things like that, and every teacher (focuses) attention mostly on them instead of the other kids who behave better," Amber said.

But Gardner says his students are learning to be self-sufficient.

"They're learning patience, and I think it forces them to learn to help each other a little bit, because I'll say, 'Well, I may not be able to answer that question right now, but I bet so-and-so can.' "

Ernest Husarik, former superintendent of Carmel Clay Schools, agreed that while overcrowded conditions can be challenging for everyone involved, they are not necessarily bad for students.

"I think when you are in an overcrowded environment, most students adapt, I think, fairly easily. But I do think it causes some discomfort when you're passing through the halls," said Husarik.

"The disadvantages of a larger class are you want to make certain that (students) have the opportunity to participate in the class discussion. There's probably more disadvantages to doing group work, hands-on work in a crowded setting."

Depending on whom you talk to, the ideal class size can vary.

Grant said, "I prefer 20 kids because it's not as loud and noisy as 30 kids."

The Carmel Clay Schools Web site lists the average class size as 18, but Husarik believes it can be higher.

"I think on average if it could be around 24 or 25, that would be a comfortable class size. But my general sense is it really depends on the subject.

"You can sometimes have very small classes, and there may not be the focus (that students) should be getting. And larger classes, because they're larger, everybody pays close attention."

According to the administration office in Washington Township, the average elementary class size is 20.

Although Gardner does not have an average-size classroom, he believes larger classrooms can be successful, depending on the students involved.

"A lot depends on the kind of kids that you're dealing with. If you have 30 kids that are extremely bright and well-behaved, I might be able to say, 'Yeah, I'll take some more,' " he said.

"I don't think there is anybody that's involved in education, from the school board on down, who wouldn't like to see class size be lower," he added. "It just makes sense that the fewer kids you have compared to the number of teachers, the more effective those teachers are going to be able to be, the more time they're going to be able to spend on all kinds of special learning opportunities."

"I think the issue of overcrowding is probably one of those good news/bad news stories," Husarik said. "I think it's much better to deal with growth than with decline."

Overcrowding isn't going away, but there are ways to deal with it.

Gardner often held class outdoors. He used parent volunteers to help with the students and had a classroom assistant come in part of the day.

And his students weren't in the same classroom all day. They went to different classrooms for different subjects, "so at some spot our teacher can handle those who need more attention," said Amber.

For Gardner, his classroom situation is challenging but rewarding.

"I don't feel too bad about what's going on, because I want the students to see me doing my best, and I expect the same from them," he said.

"When I go home at the end of every day, I want to be able to say, 'Sure, I didn't do everything I could for everyone -- I didn't answer every question, I didn't solve every problem -- but I gave it my best,' and that's all I ask of myself."

ASSISTANT EDITOR: Laurann Brown, 16.